BBC TV debate: Rishi Sunak tried to savage Keir Starmer as if he was already prime minister

Roles were reversed in the second and final debate in Nottingham, writes John Rentoul

At one point Sunak theatrically declared, ‘Oh my god, ‘smash the gangs’, what does that mean?’ (POOL/AFP via Getty Images)

Rishi Sunak was like an irritatingly bouncy leader of the opposition, harassing a world-weary prime minister who had to explain that life was a bit more complicated than his opponent suggested.

Politics has a way of getting ahead of itself, and the BBC TV debate seemed to be taking place after 4 July, when all the problems raised by members of the studio audience were Keir Starmer’s problems – and it was Sunak who was able to float free and attack.

This meant that the debate was sharper than the muddy and confused affair at the start of the campaign. Starmer was readier to interrupt and say that what Sunak was saying was “false”, having been taken by surprise in the first debate and failed to respond for some time to the allegation that Labour would put up taxes by £2,000.

This time, Starmer said “false” twice during the debate and at the end, when Sunak warned about the £2,000 again, Starmer said: “That is a lie. He’s been told not to repeat that lie and he’s just done it.”

But that is the thing about being in opposition: you have more scope to make things up. And you can be freer with your promises, because you don’t have to get the civil service to implement them. So Sunak could promise to spend more on public services and to cut taxes, because he could pretend that it would all be funded by cutting welfare.

Whereas Starmer, because he will be in government in nine days’ time, which is the same as being in government now, could not promise anything because he knows it would have to be paid for. Even when Mishal Husain, the presenter, quoted the Institute for Fiscal Studies saying taxes would have to go up, Starmer had to play dumb and say that everything in his manifesto was fully funded.

It suited Starmer to play the role of the responsible party of government, scolding the opposing party offering pie in the sky. He accused Sunak of being like Liz Truss – making unfunded promises. A flicker of alarm crossed Sunak’s face, as he seemed to be thinking, “Wait, isn’t that my line?”

Starmer became even sterner. “The money isn’t there,” he told Sunak. “You can’t fund things from nothing.” The tables had been turned. Only a few moments before, Sunak had been boasting about how he had fought a leadership election against Liz Truss, telling people what they didn’t want to hear, namely that you can’t fund things from nothing, and now Sir Sanctimonious was lecturing him.

In fact, we got a good long glimpse into the future, when prime minister Starmer is self-importantly explaining to his critics that there are no easy answers, but if you actually read the legislation, you will find that your point has already been dealt with.

The leader of the opposition, which might indeed be Sunak for a while, although at some point it will be Kemi Badenoch or someone else, will have some fun with him.

In tonight’s debate, Sunak theatrically declared, “Oh my god, ‘smash the gangs’, what does that mean?” He accused Starmer of wanting to negotiate returns agreements with the ayatollahs of Iran and the Taliban in Afghanistan rather than deport migrants from those countries to Rwanda. He addressed Starmer directly: “Keir, you talk about this as if you care about the issue”, pointing out that when he ran for the Labour leadership, “not that long ago”, he defended free movement.

It was all good, colourful entertainment, but it was opposition politics from an opposition politician who seemed already to accept that, in a few days’ time, Starmer will be prime minister.