Interview: Graham's climb of passion

Leeds look as though they are going places again. And their manager is hungrier than ever to succeed; Ian Ridley meets George Graham, a man with regrets but with renewed ambitions

YOU are dying to ask him the question, the one that strikes at the very heart of his whole ethos as a football manager and characterised his career. Has he seen that scene in The Full Monty where the would- be male strippers finally grasp a particular piece of choreography - involving stepping forward with right arms raised - by relating it to the Arsenal back four?

"Brilliant. Yeah, great," says George Graham. "I thought that was a compliment. But we got a lot of stick about it, didn't we? Tony Adams standing there like a policeman. But I said, 'Lads, if it's effective, do it'. If we can wake up a sleepy linesman, fine. Because linesmen do ball-watch. All of a sudden he looks across our line with our hands up and he puts his flag up automatically. That's common sense. I drilled it into the players and I don't have any apology for that."

Graham has few apologies about anything. Occasionally he will make mention of losing his job at Arsenal and the one-year ban from the FA as a result of the Premier League's bungs inquiry but his attitude is mainly that he has served his time without squealing and it is history. Time heals but contrition, with its forgiveness, comes only gradually.

He does, though, admit to mistakes and regrets, for this is a less defensive Graham and he is enjoying a little credit for the first time in a long while after his current charges Leeds United surprised even themselves by leaping up to fourth place in the Premiership last weekend after a stirring victory over Derby County. Next Sunday, West Ham are live at Leeds on Sky. Once Graham would have firmly if politely, via his secretary, declined a request for a one-to-one interview. It meant he had few allies in the media when the day of reckoning came. Now he rings you back himself, wonders where you live and even suggests a convenient meeting point. Next, Leeds will be coming back from three goals down to win matches 4-3.

More open and consequently more vulnerable he may seem but it appears the same determined man with method to his management. The time out of the game may have given him opportunity to reflect and recharge, to improve his tennis and communication skills, but the work ethic, fierce passion and desire - nay need - to succeed remain intact.

Inevitably, since it occupied eight years of his life and yielded six trophies, the Arsenal era still proudly punctuates his conversation. Wistfulness creeps in only in discussing the end. "The way I left Highbury was really sad," he says. "I could say a lot more but it was just sad. I should have left a hero. I still say it now. Even with everything that happened, I should have left a hero with what I achieved there. So then I just said, 'Right, I'll start over and see if I can do it again'. Life is all about getting over obstacles. I chose to get over one and the stigma that went with it."

Being Scottish helps, he says. "My word is passion. Scottish people have passion, in whatever they do. Alex Ferguson has it. Kenny Dalglish has it. I think the jury's out on foreign managers coming here and whether they have the same feeling for our game. Sometimes I turn on the television and if there is ever any dispute between the Government and the unions, you can always bet it's a Scottish voice leading the unions. How many times have you turned on and thought, 'Not another Scot'. They just love to lead, to be at the front. It's a trait and it's a strength."

When the ban ended, Graham turned down several "little" jobs, cannily guessing correctly that with City involvement in the game these days, and its demands for success to boost share prices, bigger jobs would beckon more often. He had little hesitation in accepting Leeds, just over a year ago now, when the end came for Howard Wilkinson.

Whereas Wilkinson felt the Don Revie era was a millstone and had memorabilia removed, Graham believes it should be recalled as evidence of what the club can achieve and should aspire to. "I remember Leeds were massive under Revie when I was a player," he says. "And if you get success up there, from Middlesbrough in the North to Sheffield in the South, you have no competition. You don't need a fairy godfather. Like Arsenal, it could be self-financing. I knew I was taking over a business with enormous potential."

And problems. "I was surprised at the enormity of the job that had to be done," he admits. "I said to the fans, 'Give me six weeks to two months to assess the situation', and I told them this is not going to be a quick fix. This is going to to take some time. The youth policy was in good shape, they had good people running it, but the first-team squad was a mess." He inherited players on huge contracts whose attitudes upset him. Only now, with Tony Yeboah, Tomas Brolin and Carlton Palmer among the departed, as he has spent more than pounds 9m and recouped just over pounds 3m, is his squad settling down.

"There were a few players coming to Leeds for a pension. And that's why I got rid of a few names," he says. "Leeds are too big for people to come and collect a pension. I love passionate people, hungry people. If you look at the players I have signed in my career, the majority of them have been on the way up.

"I think some players wanted to play on reputations. You know, 'I'm a good player, don't expect me to sweat'. People seemed to think I was being hard but I don't understand why. All I am is professional. You can have a bit of fun a times but I say, 'OK lads, fun's over, let's get down to work'. My time is valuable and all I want is 100 per cent attention and co-operation from players and a lot of them don't like that. A lot of players just think, 'Oh he's too serious'."

His men signed in the close season, such as David Hopkin, Alf-Inge Haaland, Jimmy Floyd Haisselbank and Bruno Ribeiro, fit his bill of team above individual, while his assistant David O'Leary has, Graham says, revealed a tougher mental streak than he expected.

At first last season, it was not pretty stuff as Leeds ground out dour, low-scoring results. "I had to stop the goals going in and I worked on the training ground with the back four the way I did at Arsenal. At most clubs the forwards do shooting practice at the end of a session because they know the lads enjoy it. I worked my back four at Arsenal. At first Kenny Sansom didn't like it but when new lads like Lee Dixon, Steve Bould and Nigel Winterburn came in, I kept on with it. Look at them now.

"Now the Leeds fans are saying we are on the right track, now they are going to be greedy. But I won't kid them. We are improving all the time but we are not there yet. We are probably ahead of schedule and soon the club has to make decisions.

"To me, grinding out results is the easy part. Self-discipline and team discipline will get us so far, round about the top six. Then we have to consolidate before the final step of moving in with the big boys. After that you have got to go for more quality players." What does encourage him is a youth system that is likely to produce four "outstanding" young players in the next 18 months to follow the prodigy Harry Kewell.

But, Graham insists, he will happily spend pounds 10m on a player if he is granted it. "I have got this reputation that George Graham doesn't like big names, big stars. What a load of rubbish that is. I want a performing star."

The 1-0 thing, too, is something of a myth, he adds. "We have won two games 4-3 at Leeds this season. George Graham. Can you believe it? But I have always wanted to win with a bit of panache. I prefer winning 4- 3 to 1-0, though I'd hate to lose 4-3. I'd prefer 1-0. Let's face it, this is a winning profession. This phrase 'the passing game' is just an excuse for losing sometimes. I have read a lot of books on sports psychology, like The Winner Within by the old LA Lakers basketball coach Pat Riley, and in a conflict you have to make up your mind whether you want to be a winner or a loser.

"I played the 1-0 card. I went along with it the last two or three years at Arsenal. I would hold my hands up and say 'OK, we were boring on a lot of occasions', mainly because I couldn't get the creative midfield players for one reason or another, like the wage structure for which I carried the can. But before that we never got the credit for an exciting team. Up in my study at home I have got the league table of the second championship. One game. We lost one game out of 38 and if you look at our goalscoring record, it surprised everybody."

He can do it again, he clearly believes, despite new trends in the game. "The basic principles of management have not changed. If you look at the success of a club, there is usually a very strong leadership. There needs to be a little bit of fear there and in fact nowadays with big-name players on big salaries, you have probably got to be stronger. I hate fining players but I will do it. At Arsenal we used to give the money to Great Ormond Street [children's hospital]. I know I am good at my job. I have more confidence in that now even than when I was at Arsenal. You have to be mentally tough, like a Ferguson. He's a rhino. A bit similar to myself."

You were hoping that the mellow yellow scarf George Graham wears at Elland Road these days, replacing the fiery red one with a cannon embroidered he had made at Highbury, was going to give you an easy line about symbolic change. He is not entirely ready for it yet.