Jon Champion and Ally McCoist: ITV duo on the World Cup, their cult following and the art of commentary

Interview: The pair sat down with The Independent in Sochi to discuss Aeroflot, Immanuel Kant and the importance, above all, of being mates

If you had asked a section of the country’s World Cup-watching population to name potential ‘breakout stars’ at the start of the tournament, few would have replied with the names of two commentators.

You can keep “your Denis Cheryshevs, Takashi Inuis and Hirving Lozanos of this world” though, as some behind the microphone might say, because the biggest revelation of the World Cup for many has been the partnership between ITV’s Jon Champion and Ally McCoist.

Though not the channel’s first-choice pairing, their good humour, earnest enthusiasm, thorough research and natural ease in each other’s company has won plenty of fans. There have already been calls for them to be given next month’s final.

McCoist’s penchant for historical trivia is proving particularly popular, and a commentary rarely passes by without the Scot relaying some fact about the Russian city he and Champion find themselves in.

“Kazan’s come a long way since it fell to Ivan the Terrible in 1552,” he casually remarked during Colombia’s Group H win over Poland on Sunday. It is a line that should live on in sports broadcasting immortality.

In the hours before their most recent commentary, Wednesday’s meeting between Peru and Australia in Sochi, the pair kindly agreed to sit down with The Independent to discuss – among other things – Aeroflot, the art of commentary and the importance, above all, of being mates.

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Jon and Ally, for starters, how’ve you enjoyed Russia so far?

AMc: There’s been a lot of travelling but you know something, it’s been alright. What’s really helped is everybody at the airports. For example, when we came here from Kazan, we went back into Moscow and there was a girl waiting on us coming off the flight – not just us but people transferring to Sochi – and taking us right through. The whole thing has been great, seamless. We’ve been really lucky. A lot of the guys are based in Moscow and I get that but at the same time we’ve enjoyed the travelling side of things as well.

JC: You get a proper flavour of the World Cup when you’re just travelling around all the time whereas if you’re in a bunker in Moscow, you get a view of it but you don’t get a proper taste. But the warmth of the welcome here has been extraordinary. I found myself saying something the other day I never thought I’d ever say, which was: ‘Aren’t Aeroflot good?!’ Because obviously they’ve been the butt of so many jokes for all of us over the years.

They used to have the most crashes of any airline, didn’t they?

JC: They did! But they have a brand new fleet of planes and honestly we could set our watches by the flights.

AMc: I’ll tell you how things have changed. We’ve flown with Aeroflot for all our internal flights apart from one and immediately after that flight we were like: ‘We need to get back on Aeroflot!’ Which tells you how far Aeroflot have come!

Did you used to travel with them much as a player Ally?

AMc: Not an awful lot, a couple of times. The best way I can put it is that they’ve certainly improved!

Have you had much chance to do any tourism and sight-seeing?

JC: That’s very much your department, isn’t it Ally?

AMc: We have actually done quite a bit! Up in Kaliningrad, we went on a few nice walks and Kazan especially. The one place we haven’t been to yet and haven’t had a good look-around is Moscow – just effectively because we’ve been staying there then away again the following day.

But Kazan was stunning, absolutely stunning, the old town of Kazan. We had a look around the mosque and the Kremlin there. Kaliningrad was equally different, an amazing story. It’s enclaved north of Poland and Lithuania to the east, so we’ve enjoyed ourselves.

JC: And you’ve been reading up about all of these, haven’t you? The first game we did, Nigeria vs Croatia in Kaliningrad, it wasn’t a great game and it was dying on its backside a little bit in the second half. There was an injury and nothing really to talk about on the football front.

You’re always conscious that there will be people shouting at their televisions if you move away from the football too much, but I thought we needed to sustain this, so I turned to Ally and I said: “So Ally, what have you made of your first ever visit to Kaliningrad?”

He looked at me with a twinkle in his eye and said: “Well Jon...” I knew something was coming. He said: “I’ve always been fascinated by the role of the Teutonic Knights in the 13th century, and indeed the contribution culturally of Immanuel Kant.” At that point, I knew it was taking a very different direction to any football commentary I’d ever done before.

But this is what’s proving so popular. You’ve obviously done your research and it’s something different, isn’t it?

AMc: It is. You know something, you’ve got to do your research on the teams – whether it’s Peru, Australia, Croatia, Nigeria – whoever it may be, but at the same time you’ve got to be conscious of the fact that there will be times where you have to talk about something else. You’ve got a kill a minute, maybe.

JC: And on ITV and BBC, you’re dealing with a general audience, a much bigger audience than on Sky or BT where people are paying specifically to watch football. On the BBC and ITV you have casual viewers as well, so you need something to interest them and give them a bit of a flavour of the World Cup I think. It wasn’t really a conscious decision really, it just happened.

AMc: We fell into to it, quite frankly. Stumbled into it!

Have you two worked together before?

AMc: We have, yeah, numerous occasions...

JC: But not really as commentator and co-commentator. We did the World Cup together in 1998 for the BBC then in 2002 and 2006 for ITV, but Ally was a studio man, one of the posh people, and I was out on the road, one of the dirt-trackers. So it’s the first time we’ve been united in this sense, but it probably helps that we’ve known each other for a long time and [in Ally] you couldn’t find a better tourist.

What was your reaction when you found out you’d be working together again then?

JC: Well I was thrilled...

AMc: No let me answer first: I was delighted! I was thrilled! Though I’m not sure Jon shared my joy...

JC: Well I did send him a text to say: ‘Delighted we’re being reunited on this World Cup. Normal rules apply: 10 o’clock curfew and it will be alcohol-free.’ Then I didn’t get a reply for four-and-a-half months...

Has that curfew been obeyed?

AMc: No!

JC: But you are showing your advancing years, aren’t you? You’ve been in bed before midnight at least once on this trip.

AMc: Yes, it is safe to say we have slowed down, which is no bad thing. But we’ve got a great group as well, so we’re really lucky we’ve all got on so well.

Are you aware of just how popular the partnership has proved back home? Are you getting that sort of feedback on social media?

JC: Not really. We’re in a bit of a bubble because we’re travelling so much and it’s probably fair to say we’re not of a generation where social media is our first port of call. I am on Twitter, so I see a little bit of what’s going on. I think the first time it struck home was when someone sent us a link to a piece suggesting Ally should get his own travel show.

AMc: To which I replied: ‘They’ve already got ‘An Idiot Abroad’, haven’t they?’ They must have me down for a ‘Karl Pilkington 2’, ‘Another Idiot Abroad’!

JC: It had been suggested you could be a threat or a rival to Ben Fogle. I thought either Cliff Michelmore or Judith Chalmers would be more appropriate.

What do you think makes a good commentary partnership?

AMc: Obviously Jon does most of the commentary, and I think it’s important – without wanting to tempt fate – when you need to have a little bit of silence. For example, the other night, for the national anthem of the Colombians, I’ve never heard a national anthem sung like that in my life. Clearly, you’re going to be quiet for that anyway, but there will be instances perhaps in a game or a shot of the fans where you don’t need to say anything. That’s important. Jon’s obviously better and far more educated than I am at it, but no, it’s good. You just bounce off each other, and don’t try too hard.

JC: I think that’s the key. For me, it’s my eighth World Cup and I remember going to ones early in my career where you really feel you have to make an impression. That’s probably the worst way to approach it. You try too hard. But you learn over time to respond to what happens in front of you, rather than trying to create something. You just let it wash over you and hopefully something good does happen.

I think people always say a good commentary is like listening to a couple of friends sitting discussing a game. If you can have a bit of that element and you’re not trying to preach to the people at home, and if you sound like you’re having a great time – because let’s not forget, anyone listening at home would probably give half of one limb to do what we’re doing as our jobs. We’ve got to sound like we’re enjoying it and we are enjoying ourselves – hopefully that comes across – but I don’t think you can be all curmudgeonly and say: ‘Well this isn’t a great game.’ Tell it as it is, but at the same time make it clear that you realise it’s a privileged seat that you’ve got.

I saw one tweet describe you two as like an old couple sat talking at the seaside with a rug over their knees. It was meant affectionately of course, and like you say that’s what people like – two mates talking...

AMc: I think as Jon says, that’s exactly it. It’s clearly not a struggle. When you’re sitting listening in the house it has to be enjoyable, it has to be a good listen. We can’t affect what’s going on in the park, but we can obviously describe it in a way so people can enjoy it. If you’re sitting listening to two guys who are enjoying themselves and being honest, passing on relevant information and a bit of insight as well, that’s half the battle.

Finally, on the tournament itself, who’s impressed you so far?

AMc: Colombia the other night, for me. It was the best 90-minute performance I’ve seen Obviously Belgium look good, England look excellent as well. Other teams have played well in parts. The drama has been following Germany, there’s no doubt about that. Spain have played good stuff in parts, but that 90-minute performance from Colombia for me so far has been the performance of the tournament.

JC: In a sense, the tournament gets serious from hereon in with knockout football. I think now’s the time that the really good teams have to put their heads above the parapet. I’m quietly impressed by England but I don’t think they’ve played anyone of substance yet and if they play against a shadow Belgium side, whilst that will still be good, I don’t know how much we’ll learn from that either. But I love the way Gareth Southgate has gone about it. He’s taken a clever approach so we don’t have that weight of expectation that has seen us buckle at the knees before.

I can’t believe Brazil aren’t going to be there towards the bitter end, and Germany having had their narrow squeak the other night, you’d think they go all the way through. Before the tournament started I thought France, and I still think they could be in there because they’ve got a terrific group of players that hasn’t quite clicked yet. You wonder about the manager, whether he’s the man to get the best out of them but they’ve come through adversity before. They won the World Cup in 1998 without a striker, didn’t they?