Cleverly clashes with radio presenter over Rwanda policy during interview
Home Secretary James Cleverly told Amol Rajan ‘you’re not asking questions, you’re making statements’.
Your support helps us to tell the story
From reproductive rights to climate change to Big Tech, The Independent is on the ground when the story is developing. Whether it's investigating the financials of Elon Musk's pro-Trump PAC or producing our latest documentary, 'The A Word', which shines a light on the American women fighting for reproductive rights, we know how important it is to parse out the facts from the messaging.
At such a critical moment in US history, we need reporters on the ground. Your donation allows us to keep sending journalists to speak to both sides of the story.
The Independent is trusted by Americans across the entire political spectrum. And unlike many other quality news outlets, we choose not to lock Americans out of our reporting and analysis with paywalls. We believe quality journalism should be available to everyone, paid for by those who can afford it.
Your support makes all the difference.Home Secretary James Cleverly clashed with Today presenter Amol Rajan in tetchy exchanges about the Rwanda asylum policy.
The Cabinet minister protested at Rajan’s handling of the radio interview, telling him “if you’re just going to make a statement, I can go and get a cup of tea”.
He also accused Rajan of trying to “skip past” one of the Government’s achievements in cutting the number of Albanians seeking to enter the UK.
Rajan told him “we have reported that fact, which is why I didn’t skip across it, I’m the one who raised it”.
Mr Cleverly’s criticism of Rajan came after the presenter said it was “hard to overstate your position is from the Supreme Court of this country” after the ruling that the Rwanda scheme was unlawful.
The court’s judgment said the United Nations refugee agency UNHCR “reported that the Rwandan officials who participated in training which it had organised had very limited or no understanding of how to assess refugee status”.
Rajan told Mr Cleverly: “You must have done a huge amount of work to get from that to a position where you’re confident …”
Mr Cleverly said: “That’s exactly what happened.”
As the pair talked across each other, the Home Secretary said: “Are you asking questions, or are you making statements? Because if you’re just going to make a statement, I can go and get a cup of tea.”
He added: “I’m here, I want to answer your questions, but you are making statements and then moving on without giving me an opportunity to address the statements that you make, a number of which I disagree with.”
The Home Secretary also accused Rajan of falling into a trap set by Labour after shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said Mr Cleverly privately described the Rwanda policy as “batshit”.
Rajan said: “It was suggested in the House of Commons yesterday – and we don’t use this phrase lightly, so apologies to sensitive ears – that you described this policy as batshit.”
Mr Cleverly chuckled and said: “You’ve stepped straight into the trap, if you don’t mind me saying, because the Labour Party would love us to discuss this particular issue rather than the gaping vacuum in the Labour Party’s immigration policy.”
Rajan told him: “You’ve fallen straight into the trap of not answering the question, having just given a sermon about how you want to answer the question.”
He pushed Mr Cleverly on whether he did use the phrase, but the Home Secretary said: “I don’t remember a conversation like that.”