") no-repeat center center;background-size:10px 16px;content:' '}@media(min-width:768px){.gBkjJh::before{display:none}}.fqxTeP{min-height:389px;clear:both}@media(min-width:1000px){.fqxTeP{min-height:380px}}@media(min-width:1000px){.iZwHvr .taboola{display:none}}.iZwHvr:has(#taboola-carousel-thumbnails){min-height:426px}.iZwHvr:has(#taboola-mid-article-thumbnails-crime){min-height:405px}@media(min-width:1000px){.iZwHvr:has(#taboola-carousel-thumbnails),.iZwHvr:has(#taboola-mid-article-thumbnails-crime){min-height:0}}.jImJId .tp-container-inner,.jImJId .sc-1suqprf-0{position:relative;box-shadow:0 -22px 16px 22px rgba(255,255,255,0.95)}.jImJId.closed{display:none}.eZumoJ{position:fixed;top:0;left:0;z-index:2147483644;background:rgba(0,0,0,0.5);cursor:pointer;opacity:0;transition:opacity 300ms ease-in-out}.eZumoJ.overlay-background--open{width:100vw;height:100vh;opacity:1}.dRVLpc{--trans:300ms ease-in-out;position:fixed;top:0;left:0;z-index:2147483645;width:100vw;height:100vh;opacity:0;pointer-events:none;transform:translateY(-24px);transform-origin:top center;transition:transform var(--trans),opacity var(--trans)}.dRVLpc.overlay--open{opacity:1;transform:translateY(0);transition-delay:150ms}.dRVLpc.overlay--open>:first-child{pointer-events:auto}.cWTSTp .sc-17yxc4y-0{display:none}.cWTSTp:hover .sc-17yxc4y-0,.cWTSTp.bookmark-button-saved .sc-17yxc4y-0{display:block}.cWTSTp:hover .sc-17yxc4y-1,.cWTSTp.bookmark-button-saved .sc-17yxc4y-1{display:none}.cWTSTp.bookmark-button-saved .sc-17yxc4y-0{display:block}.cWTSTp.bookmark-button-saved .sc-17yxc4y-1{display:none}.cWTSTp.bookmark-button-saved:hover .sc-17yxc4y-0{display:none}.cWTSTp.bookmark-button-saved:hover .sc-17yxc4y-1{display:block}.czGZzO{--margin-x:12px;--modal-width:calc(100% - (var(--margin-x) * 2));--modal-max-width:351px;--padding:60px 16px 42px;--line-height:1.25;position:fixed;top:50%;left:50%;overflow:auto;width:var(--modal-width);max-width:var(--modal-max-width);max-height:100vh;box-sizing:border-box;padding:var(--padding);background-color:#eaf2f2;box-shadow:0 1px 1px rgba(0,0,0,0.5);line-height:var(--line-height);text-align:center;transform:translate(-50%,-50%)}@media(min-width:768px){.czGZzO{--modal-width:600px;--modal-max-width:none;--padding:72px 80px 64px;--line-height:1.2}}@media(min-width:1000px){.czGZzO{--modal-width:635px}}.kYjygs{--close-button-margin:15px;position:absolute;top:var(--close-button-margin);right:var(--close-button-margin);padding:10px}@media(min-width:768px){.kYjygs{--close-button-margin:24px}}.PPpcm{display:block;width:100%;max-width:437px;margin:0 0 20px}@media(min-width:768px){.PPpcm{margin-bottom:18px}}.cOYrQW{margin:0 0 30px;font:bold 26px/1.15 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif}@media(min-width:768px){.cOYrQW{font:bold 28px/1.15 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif}}.epOOte{display:block;width:100%;padding:0;margin:0 0 30px;font:normal 16px/1.44 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}@media(min-width:768px){.epOOte{font:normal 20px/1.44 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}}.fDiLAE{display:block;margin-top:30px;color:#222;font:normal 16px/normal 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}.lcFPQp{padding:0}.ggPfpJ{display:inline-block;width:32px;height:32px;color:#337e81}.ggPfpJ button svg{width:32px;height:32px;margin:0}:not(.subscribed) .ggPfpJ{margin:0 12px 0 0}.subscribed .ggPfpJ{margin:0 0 16px 0}.lflWOn{display:block}@media(min-width:768px){.lflWOn{display:block}}.lflWOn:last-child button{margin-right:0}.lflWOn path{stroke:#fff}.jWuEbG button{margin-right:12px}@media(min-width:768px){.jWuEbG{display:none}.jWuEbG button{margin-right:12px}}.dTzYJY{display:flex;position:relative;justify-content:center}@media(min-width:768px){.dTzYJY{justify-content:flex-end;padding-top:12px;margin:0}}.dTzYJY svg{width:60%;height:60%;margin:20%;fill:#fff}.dTzYJY [type='facebook'] svg{width:100%;height:100%;margin:0}.dTzYJY amp-social-share{margin:0 6px;border-radius:50%;background:0;outline:0}.dTzYJY amp-social-share:first-of-type{margin-left:0}.dTzYJY amp-social-share:last-of-type{margin-right:0}@media(min-width:768px){.dTzYJY .share-mobile-only{display:none}}.dTzYJY .amp-social-share-bookmark svg{display:block;width:100%;height:100%;margin:0}.dTzYJY .amp-social-share-bookmark:hover{opacity:.85}.dTzYJY .amp-social-share-facebook{background:#3b5998}.dTzYJY .amp-social-share-facebook:hover{background:#2f4779}.dTzYJY .amp-social-share-twitter{--color:#000;--color-alt:#4e4e4e;background:var(--color)}.dTzYJY .amp-social-share-twitter:hover{background:var(--color-alt)}.dTzYJY .amp-social-share-whatsapp{background:#25d366}.dTzYJY .amp-social-share-whatsapp:hover{background:#1da851}.dTzYJY .amp-social-share-whatsapp svg{width:70%;height:auto;margin:15%}.dTzYJY .amp-social-share-email{background:#ec1a2e}.dTzYJY .amp-social-share-email:hover{background:#ac2a2c}.dTzYJY .amp-social-share-email svg path{stroke:#fff}.kdvWjb{display:flex}.sticky .kdvWjb{flex-direction:column}.bfkmcy{overflow:hidden;height:23px;margin-bottom:8px;border-bottom:0;clear:both}@media(min-width:768px){.bfkmcy{height:25px}}.fczuIa{display:inline-block;flex-shrink:0;margin:0 12px 0 0;font:bold 14px/normal 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}.fczuIa::after{content:':'}.IOUwh{display:inline-block;margin-right:12px;margin-bottom:4px;color:#222;font:normal 14px/1.29 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif;text-decoration:underline}.IOUwh::first-letter {text-transform:capitalize}.izpdPv>p{margin:16px 0}.article-premium .izpdPv>p{line-height:27px}.izpdPv>h2{font-size:21px}.article-climate .izpdPv>h2{color:#ec1a2e}.article-sgi .izpdPv>h2{color:#ec1a2e}.izpdPv>p:first-child{margin-top:0}.izpdPv span:first-child~p:first-of-type{margin-top:0}.hQjaQn{display:flex;position:relative;max-width:100%;min-height:600px;justify-content:center;margin:0 auto;background-color:transparent;clear:both}@media(min-width:1000px){.hQjaQn{min-height:450px}}.teads .hQjaQn{display:block}.hQjaQn [data-mpu]{position:sticky;top:16px}@media(min-width:1000px){.jZcooN{display:none}}.jZcooN[data-mpu1]{min-height:600px}.jZcooN.pb-20{padding-bottom:20px}.hlPMMm{margin:0 0 24px;font:normal 16px/20px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}.euTVax{font:bold 16px/20px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}.jBfdop{overflow:hidden;width:100%;box-sizing:border-box;margin-bottom:16px}@media(min-width:768px){.jBfdop{max-width:634px}}@media(min-width:1250px){.jBfdop{max-width:622px}}.hKRbzg{width:100%;box-sizing:border-box;padding:8px 12px 12px;border-top:8px solid #ec1a2e;background-color:#fde8ea}@media(min-width:768px){.hKRbzg{padding-top:4px;padding-bottom:12px}}.cKIkhp{font:bold 22px/26px 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif;margin:0 0 12px;text-align:center}@media(min-width:768px){.cKIkhp{font:bold 30px/34px 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif;letter-spacing:-0.048px;margin-bottom:12px;text-align:left}}.feSJtK{display:block;margin-bottom:12px}@media(min-width:768px){.feSJtK{display:none}}.bErStG{display:flex;width:100%;box-sizing:border-box;align-items:center;justify-content:center;gap:4px;background-color:#fde8ea;color:#ec1a2e}@media(min-width:768px){.bErStG{width:auto;justify-content:flex-start}}.vaVnf{display:block;font:bold 14px/20px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif;text-decoration-line:underline;margin-block:0;text-align:center}.jWuFRk{display:inline-flex;align-items:center;justify-content:center;gap:4px}.jWuFRk:hover .sc-hez36s-5,.jWuFRk:hover .sc-a5wy94-0{color:#ac2a2c}.hKrnEq{font:normal 16px/20px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}.dWUzhG{display:flex;width:100%;flex-direction:column}@media(min-width:768px){.dWUzhG{display:flow-root;gap:24px;transition:margin-bottom .3s ease-in-out}}.bDgIJb{display:flex;width:100%;flex-direction:column;align-items:center;justify-content:center}@media(min-width:768px){.bDgIJb{width:212px;flex-shrink:0;justify-content:flex-start;margin-left:24px;float:right}}.EYumw{display:none;flex-direction:row;align-items:center;justify-content:center;gap:8px;margin-top:8px}@media(min-width:768px){.EYumw{display:flex;margin-top:12px}}.kCOwPr{display:flex;width:100%;align-items:center;justify-content:center;gap:8px;margin-top:8px;margin-bottom:12px}@media(min-width:768px){.kCOwPr{display:none}}.iGXncB{display:flex;overflow:hidden;height:0;flex-direction:column;gap:8px;opacity:0;transition:all .3s ease-in-out}@media(min-width:768px){.iGXncB{display:flex;position:relative;width:auto;height:40px;order:-1;opacity:1;transition-behavior:allow-discrete}.iGXncB::after{--fade-from:rgba(253,232,234,0);--fade-to:#fde8ea;position:absolute;bottom:0;left:0;z-index:1;width:100%;height:40px;background-image:linear-gradient(to bottom,var(--fade-from),var(--fade-to));content:'';opacity:1;transition:opacity 150ms ease-out}}@media(min-width:768px){.doTReP{order:-1}}.ggPDxB{display:none;padding-top:8px;margin-top:16px;border-top:1px solid #919191}@media(max-width:767px){.ggPDxB{display:flex}}.gibhIT{display:none}@media(min-width:768px){.gibhIT{display:flex;position:relative;align-items:flex-start;margin-top:12px}}.gHNATZ{min-height:600px}@media(min-width:1000px){.gHNATZ{min-height:450px}}.gHNATZ.mobile-only{display:block}@media(min-width:1000px){.gHNATZ.mobile-only{display:none}}.gHNATZ.desktop-only{display:none}@media(min-width:1000px){.gHNATZ.desktop-only{display:block;margin-bottom:16px}}.gHNATZ.desktop-only+p{margin-top:0}.gHNATZ .third-party-ad{position:sticky;top:16px}.blOrrc{width:100%;flex-grow:1}.blOrrc .amp-article-content[amp-access][amp-access-hide]{display:block;overflow:hidden;max-height:360px}.blOrrc .amp-article-content[amp-access][amp-access-hide] .social-share{display:none}.blOrrc .amp-article-content[amp-access][amp-access-hide].show-all-content{max-height:100%}@media(max-width:594px){.blOrrc .amp-article-content[amp-access][amp-access-hide]{max-height:530px}}.blOrrc .amp-newsletter-reg-gate{position:relative;left:-12px;width:calc(100% + 24px)}.blOrrc .social-share{width:100%;padding-top:10px;padding-bottom:20px}@media(min-width:768px){.blOrrc .social-share{justify-content:flex-start}}.blOrrc .social-share.sticky{display:none}@media(min-width:1000px){.blOrrc .social-share.sticky{display:flex;position:sticky;top:14px;width:34px;flex-direction:column;margin-top:0;margin-left:-25%;float:left}.blOrrc .social-share.sticky amp-social-share,.blOrrc .social-share.sticky .sc-mgcah7-0{margin:0 0 16px}.article-feature-video .blOrrc .social-share.sticky{margin-top:0}.article-feature:not(.article-feature-video) .blOrrc .social-share.sticky{margin-top:35%}}.blOrrc.sponsored-article img,.blOrrc.sponsored-article video{width:100%;max-width:602px;height:auto}.blOrrc.sponsored-article iframe{max-width:602px;max-height:400px}.blOrrc .under-article-prompt-donations{padding-bottom:8px;margin-top:-3px}.blOrrc .big-letter{--color:#222;display:flex;position:relative;width:0;height:0;align-items:center;justify-content:center;padding:40px;margin-top:22px;margin-right:12px;border:1px solid var(--color);float:left;font:normal 52px/1 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif;text-transform:uppercase}.blOrrc .big-letter:first-child{margin-top:6px}.blOrrc .big-letter::before{position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid var(--color);border-radius:50%;content:''}.blOrrc #taboola-below-article-1{min-height:2350px}@media(min-width:768px){.blOrrc #taboola-below-article-1{min-height:3370px}}.blOrrc #taboola-below-article-1-split-num-1{min-height:130px}@media(min-width:768px){.blOrrc #taboola-below-article-1-split-num-1{min-height:415px}}.blOrrc .sc-fwko30-0+.sc-1xtsh2b-0{margin-top:-16px}@media(min-width:768px){.blOrrc{max-width:636px;margin:0}}@media(min-width:1000px){.blOrrc{max-width:624px;margin:0}.blOrrc.subscribed{max-width:636px}}@media(max-width:999px){.blOrrc{padding-right:0}.blOrrc .under-article-prompt-donations{margin-top:-18px}}.kvSKnI{display:flex;flex-wrap:wrap;justify-content:flex-start;margin-bottom:8px;color:#646464;font:normal 16px/20px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}@media(min-width:768px){.kvSKnI{width:70%;align-items:center;justify-content:flex-start;margin-bottom:0;font:normal 16px/24px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}}@media(min-width:1000px){.kvSKnI{width:70%;margin-bottom:0}}.eXEVFg{display:flex;height:20px;margin:0 12px 8px 0}.article-voices .eXEVFg{height:auto}@media(min-width:425px){.article-voices .eXEVFg{height:20px}}.eXEVFg::before{display:inline-block;align-self:center;margin-top:1px;margin-right:12px;content:'\2022';transform:scale(1.5)}.eXEVFg:first-child::before{content:none}@media(min-width:768px){.eXEVFg{height:24px;margin-bottom:0}.eXEVFg::before{margin-top:2px}}.eXEVFg time{display:block}.eXEVFg time::first-letter {text-transform:capitalize}.enHDwq{margin:0 4px 8px 0}.enHDwq::before{display:inline-block;margin-top:2px;margin-right:12px;color:#646464;content:'\2022';transform:scale(1.5)}.enHDwq:first-child::before{display:none}@media(min-width:768px){.enHDwq{margin-bottom:0}}.hfnwMY{display:flex;justify-content:flex-start;padding:0;margin:0 0 16px}@media(min-width:768px){.hfnwMY{display:flex;width:30%;align-items:center;justify-content:flex-end;margin:0}}@media(min-width:1000px){.hfnwMY{width:30%}}.hrDjjf{padding-top:0;border-top:0;border-bottom:0}@media(min-width:768px){.hrDjjf{display:flex;flex-flow:row wrap;padding-bottom:16px}.hrDjjf .sc-1qz44j0-0{order:1}.hrDjjf .sc-1qz44j0-10{order:2}}@media(min-width:1000px){.hrDjjf{flex-direction:row}}.dlBKBu{padding:16px 12px 12px;text-align:left;font:bold 14px/18px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}@media(min-width:768px){.dlBKBu{padding:16px 16px 12px}}.article-infact .dlBKBu{padding:16px 0}@media(min-width:1000px){.dlBKBu{padding:24px 0 19px}.article-feature .dlBKBu{max-width:968px;margin:0 auto}}.dlBKBu a{color:#222}.dlBKBu a:hover{color:#ac2a2c}.dlBKBu a:hover::after{color:#222}.dlBKBu a::after{margin-right:4px;margin-left:4px;content:'>'}.dlBKBu a:last-child::after{display:none}.azcVx{margin:0 0 20px;letter-spacing:0}.VFZbw{margin:0;color:#646464;font:normal 16px/20px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}@media(min-width:768px){.VFZbw{font:normal 18px/22px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}}@media(min-width:1000px){.VFZbw{font:normal 20px/24px 'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif}}.VFZbw p{font:inherit}.article-feature .VFZbw a{font-weight:bold}.fKNoab{max-width:968px;margin:0 auto;background:#fff}@media(min-width:1000px){.fKNoab{padding:0 16px}.parallax .fKNoab{max-width:1240px}}.bJjAgi{font:bold 32px/36px 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif;letter-spacing:-0.0156em}@media(min-width:768px){.bJjAgi{font:bold 44px/48px 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif;letter-spacing:-0.0113em}}@media(min-width:1000px){.bJjAgi{font:bold 54px/58px 'Indy Serif','Indy Serif Fallback',serif;letter-spacing:-0.0092em}}.dufPYg .sc-qvufca-0{margin:0 12px}@media(min-width:768px){.dufPYg .sc-qvufca-0{max-width:968px;margin-right:16px;margin-left:16px}}@media(min-width:1000px){.dufPYg .sc-qvufca-0{margin-right:auto;margin-left:auto}}.dufPYg .sc-qvufca-2{margin-bottom:16px;color:#222}@media(min-width:768px){.dufPYg .sc-qvufca-2{margin-bottom:18px}}@media(min-width:1000px){.dufPYg .sc-qvufca-2{margin-top:0}}.article-feature .dufPYg .sc-qvufca-2{text-align:center}@media(min-width:1000px){.article-feature .dufPYg .sc-qvufca-2{max-width:968px}}.dufPYg .sc-aeekvc-0{margin-bottom:16px}@media(min-width:1000px){.dufPYg .sc-aeekvc-0{max-width:968px}}.dufPYg .sc-aeekvc-0 p{margin-top:0}@media(min-width:768px){.dufPYg .sc-aeekvc-0 p{margin-bottom:16px}}@media(min-width:2560px){.dufPYg .sc-aeekvc-0 p{margin-bottom:12px}}.dyGKzS{--bleed:12px;display:flex;box-sizing:border-box;flex-direction:row;gap:32px;padding:16px var(--bleed);background-color:#fff}.article-liveblog .dyGKzS{background-color:#f7f7f7}@media(min-width:768px){.dyGKzS{--bleed:0;max-width:1000px;margin:0 auto}}@media(min-width:1000px){.dyGKzS{--bleed:16px;max-width:1000px;padding:var(--bleed)}}.gIldS{overflow:hidden;height:0;color:transparent}.kFPmfF{max-width:100%;margin:0 0 20px}.kFPmfF.sticky{position:sticky;top:16px}.iaRZct{min-height:600px}.iaRZct #mpu1{position:sticky;top:16px}.bFiDnI{min-height:250px}.jAzEot{max-width:100%}.eDScvc{margin:0 0 6px;color:#646464;font-family:'Indy Sans','Indy Sans Fallback',sans-serif;font-size:15px}.CmSgF{margin:0 0 12px}.lbFVDq{height:380px}.bsSHYO{width:100%;height:51px}.bjKtIv{margin-bottom:16px;border-bottom:1px solid #919191}.jLzsCV{margin-bottom:16px}.jLzsCV [role='listitem']{position:relative;margin-bottom:12px;border-bottom:1px solid #d3d3d3}.jLzsCV [role='listitem'] .sc-u4n1j-0{display:flex;position:absolute;bottom:16px;left:10px;width:32px;height:32px;align-items:center;justify-content:center;border-radius:50%;background-color:#ec1a2e}.jLzsCV [role='listitem'] .sc-u4n1j-0>svg{width:90%;fill:#fff;stroke:transparent}.jLzsCV [role='listitem']:first-child{display:block;padding-bottom:0;margin-bottom:12px}.jLzsCV [role='listitem']:first-child .sc-u4n1j-0{top:-15px;bottom:auto;left:12px;width:35px;height:35px}.jLzsCV [role='listitem']:first-child>*:first-child{display:block;width:100%;height:205px}.jLzsCV [role='listitem']:first-child>*:last-child{position:absolute;bottom:0;width:100%;padding:28px 12px 12px;background:linear-gradient(to top,#222 50%,rgba(34,34,34,0.9) 100%) no-repeat;color:#fff;font-size:17px;font-weight:bold}.jLzsCV [role='listitem']:last-child{margin-bottom:0;border-bottom:0 none}.kNZMQb{min-height:1924px}@media(max-width:767px){.kNZMQb{display:none}}.iFeFcz{width:308px}.iFeFcz.hidden{display:none}@media(max-width:999px){.iFeFcz{display:none}}.article-liveblog .fbWdwj{background-color:#f7f7f7}.eFgmkR{justify-content:center}.cvujVr{justify-content:center}
Stay up to date with notifications from The Independent Notifications can be managed in browser preferences.
Not now Yes please
News UK Home News Five injured as London bus crashes into front garden The bus had careered through a brick wall coming to a stop just before a block of flats in Erith, south London
Tuesday 05 September 2023 13:31 BST
Subscribe to Independent Premium to bookmark this article Want to bookmark your favourite articles and stories to read or reference later? Start your Independent Premium subscription today.
Subscribe Already subscribed? Log in open image in gallery
An eyewitness took a picture of the accident in Erith (Nathan Long) Your support helps us to tell the story From reproductive rights to climate change to Big Tech, The Independent is on the ground when the story is developing. Whether it's investigating the financials of Elon Musk's pro-Trump PAC or producing our latest documentary, 'The A Word', which shines a light on the American women fighting for reproductive rights, we know how important it is to parse out the facts from the messaging.
At such a critical moment in US history, we need reporters on the ground. Your donation allows us to keep sending journalists to speak to both sides of the story.
The Independent is trusted by Americans across the entire political spectrum. And unlike many other quality news outlets, we choose not to lock Americans out of our reporting and analysis with paywalls. We believe quality journalism should be available to everyone, paid for by those who can afford it.
Your support makes all the difference. Close Read more At least five people have been injured after a bus smashed into the front of a car and mounted the pavement in south London.
Police have sealed off the quiet residential road as accident investigators try to work out how the bus ended up a front garden.
Three of the victims have been rushed to hospital after the collision at the junction in Erith , south east London at 7am on Tuesday.
Their conditions are not known but the other two casualties were discharged at the scene.
Have you been affected by this story? Email barney.davis.ind@independent.co.uk
Images from the scene of the crash show the bus had careered through a brick wall coming to a stop just before a block of flats.
Nathan Long, 28, a witness to the aftermath of the crash, said: “We were just going past and it looked pretty bad. It seems like the bus had swerved to avoid the car.”
“I really hope all the victims are alright.”
A Scotland Yard spokesman said there had been no arrests.
open image in gallery
The street scene before the crash (file image) (Google) A London Ambulance spokeswoman said: “We were called at 7.05am today (5 September) to reports of a road traffic collision involving a bus and a car at the junction between Park Crescent Road and Bexley Road, Erith.
“We sent two ambulance crews and an incident response officer to the scene.
“We treated five patients. We took three patients to hospital and discharged the other two at the scene.”
TfL has been approached for comment.
Thank you for registering Please refresh the page or navigate to another page on the site to be automatically logged in Please refresh your browser to be logged in
Join our commenting forum
Join thought-provoking conversations, follow other Independent readers and see their replies
Comments