AJ Tracey interview: 'I put strippers in my last video because I like women'

As he releases his impressive debut album, the west London MC talks to Roisin O'Connor about success, independence and his pet goats, AJ and Tracey

AJ Tracey: ‘If the media ever tries to say anything cheeky about me, I just laugh about it. “AJ put strippers in his last video, why is he in a strip club?” Because I am, bruv. I like women’ (Ashley Verse)

AJ Tracey is doing very well for himself. The 24-year-old rapper is sprawled on a cream-coloured, L-shaped sofa in the living room of his west London flat. His eyes are fixed on a large, flatscreen TV, which is housed in an entertainment unit that also displays his collection of Japanese Bearbrick toys, along with awards and gold discs for his EPs and sold-out tours. It’s roasting hot, making the presence of a plastic Christmas tree in the corner of the room seem all the more strange. Tracey doesn’t seem fussed about taking it down.

“There’s a bigger one in my bedroom,” he shrugs, nonchalantly, when I comment on the TV. He’s playing Fortnite, the popular video game, which is his preferred way of conducting interviews, and has just got off a call with his cousin, collaborator, and fellow MC Big Zuu.

Tracey, who was born Ché Wolton Grant (his mother named him after the revolutionary), seems much happier here than in his previous flat, where he was more isolated from his friends and family back in Ladbroke Grove. This area is still a bit stuck-up, he says, but plenty of his friends are close by, and he’s doing his own thing. He feels like he deserves it, and he won’t be made to feel bad by the media about enjoying a certain lifestyle, as they often try to do with celebrities who have found success on their own terms.

“If the media ever tries to say anything cheeky about me, I just laugh about it,” he says. “Like if they try to say I’m always promoting alcohol... that’s my life, I like drinking. ‘AJ put strippers in his last video, why is he in a strip club?’ Because I am, bruv. I like women.”

While there are what critics might indulgently describe as “cheeky” lyrics on his debut, self-titled album, Tracey is determined to treat everyone equally: “I give everyone the same length of rope to hang themselves by,” he says, crediting his flatmate with passing on the quote.

“I would never generalise about women,” he continues. “I’m always talking about a specific experience. Same with men, I talk about guys running away from me... that’s what they do. I’m telling my truth. People ask me, how was university; I say it was boring and it wasn’t for me. But if you wanna go, that’s cool. I’m not out to lead people astray, but everyone has their vices.”

It’s taken a while – longer than many of his fans would have liked – for Tracey to release his debut, which is out the same day as Ariana Grande’s new album, thank u, next (“which means I will definitely not get a number one,” he says with a resigned grin). Last time we spoke, ahead of the release of his top 20 EP Secure the Bag! in 2017, he confirmed he didn’t want to rush anything. His efforts have paid off: the album is an accomplished, brilliantly produced piece of work that has a narrative based on Tracey’s story so far. Any music critics hand-wringing over the supposed “death” of guitar music should check it out – the instrument is all over this new record.

“I’m really into guitars,” he agrees, observing that “even the one with Giggs on it” (“Nothing But Net”) has a guitar sample. “Country Star”, which is kind of a reverse Post Malone, has what he refers to as a country drill beat, and there’s a Caribbean vibe on opener “Plan B” and closing track “Wifey Riddim 3”, in a nod to his Trinidadian heritage. Tracey’s knowledge of music is nothing if not eclectic, a trait he has previously credited to his mum, who used to DJ on pirate radio stations. During our conversation he drops references to everyone from Swae Lee and Fakear to Taylor Swift and Dolly Parton.

He’s also acutely aware of his status not just in UK rap, but over in the US, where artists like him and Skepta have been putting in the work to help improve the reputation of British hip hop. “It’s hard for him,” Tracey says of Skepta, whom he bumped into recently during Paris Fashion Week, “because he’s got all this hype quite late in his career. He deserved all that ages ago. But it is what it is. I don’t think he cares about any of that.”

Tracey’s go-to references in music are anime and football (“if at least one isn’t on the track, it’s probably not by me”) which add a further cohesiveness to the record. Earlier examples include “False 9”, which he debuted at the launch party for Tottenham’s new kit. It’s littered with references to Spurs, major players and Fifa 17: “I’ve got vision so I pass like a relay/ No goal-line tech, can’t get a replay.”

Just one track on his debut is a pure, joyful throwback, the aptly titled “Ladbroke Grove”, which is a glorious hat-tip to old school garage. It’s also the area that has, above anywhere else, defined Tracey as the artist he is today. It’s why he refuses to feel guilty for his new home, as someone who used to stare across from a neglected estate at the lavish, multimillion-pound flats and feel jealous of the privileged people who lived there: “Why do they get to have such a nice life when we’re struggling right opposite them?” he said in a 2016 interview. “But my mum told me it’s not good to be jealous, just work hard and keep your head down. Wait your turn.” It’s also why he still visits the site of the Grenfell fire, where one of his friends died. “We knew it would go off the news agenda, but we’re never gonna forget,” he says. “When you look out my mum’s window, it’s right there.”

You’re unlikely to find any explicit politics on the new album, however. Since he appeared in a video endorsing Labour for the 2017 general election, Tracey has become increasingly disillusioned. “I feel like Corbyn’s got a good heart,” he says, “but we need a leader who’s strong. You can’t have someone saying if someone threatens us with a nuclear strike, ‘I won’t bomb them.’ What do you mean, fam? Now all the countries are looking at us like we’re just scared. That’s not a leader. Even if you’re not gonna do it, you’ve gotta say it. It’s like me saying, ‘I have a diamond watch and if someone tries to rob me I’m just gonna let them.’ Then everyone’s gonna try it.”

On his album cover, you get an idea of some of the eccentricities that make Tracey such an endearing figure, even within a scene with so many characters. He’s at a party, looking bored. There’s a pygmy goat on his lap – one of two that Tracey owns – who is also called Tracey (the other one is AJ). Both reside on a farm that he visits on a regular basis. “There are all these other goats on the farm, and mine are the smallest, but apparently they terrorise everyone,” he says proudly.

Artwork for AJ Tracey’s new album

Meanwhile, Tracey is causing a different kind of stir among the big dogs in the UK music industry. Even as an independent artist, he managed to score the 13th spot on the albums chart with Secure the Bag!, along with three top 40 singles. His latest single, “Psych Out!”, has already surpassed a million streams on YouTube and Spotify. A forthcoming UK tour, which includes a headline show at Brixton Academy in London, is pretty much sold out. That said… does he think the album-making process would have been easier if he’d signed with a major?

“Every single aspect,” he says. “If I had a label, everything would have been easier. But it wouldn’t have been the same album, from the cover art to the songs on it. Even if it’s a song I know isn’t gonna do that well, I’m dropping it as a piece of art, so I always want sick visuals to go with it.”

What he does have behind him is virtually every other young MC ready to have his back and support his work, from legends of the grime scene like Skepta and Jme, to younger blood including his friend and frequent collaborator, the 20-year-old rapper Dave. Tracey is aware that fans are clamouring for another collaboration like 2016’s “Thiago Silva” – there isn’t one on this album, but there will be more team-ups, soon. He’s proud of Dave’s success with the rapper Fredo, on last year’s number-one single “Funky Friday”.

“I told him, I’m not the biggest fan of that particular song, just ’cos it’s a bit slow for me,” he admits, incapable of being anything but honest. “They both smashed it and they’re making life easier for all us lot. I was mad proud of both of them.”

AJ Tracey’s debut album is out now